Comments for Patricia C. Wrede's Blog http://pcwrede.com/blog Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:29:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 Comment on Day Jobs by nct2 http://pcwrede.com/blog/day-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-1887 nct2 Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:40:24 +0000 http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=488#comment-1887 How much of this applies to someone who hasn't reached the point of quitting their day job yet? I would imagine that taxes do and fan mail doesn't, but I've no idea about the rest of it. (Not that I need to worry about any of it any time soon.) How much of this applies to someone who hasn’t reached the point of quitting their day job yet?

I would imagine that taxes do and fan mail doesn’t, but I’ve no idea about the rest of it. (Not that I need to worry about any of it any time soon.)

]]> Comment on So the next thing that happens is… by Gray Woodland http://pcwrede.com/blog/so-the-next-thing-that-happens-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1885 Gray Woodland Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:33:40 +0000 http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=482#comment-1885 Pat - It must be a very fine thing, to have a natural length which is not a novella or a doorstop. Or, in the worst cases, a non-stop doorstop... Beth - If I tell the story the wrong way, I'm done too. At least, I'm done till I forget that I told it that way, or stop caring. Sometimes that's a mighty long time. One trick which sometimes works, but took me another mighty long time to come to, is this: instead of outlining the True Story, give a summary - a historical article, a poem or song, whatever - from a narrator who is in some important respect infuriatingly wrong about everything. There remains then the rage to correct it, and tell what actually happened, with a handy non-authoritative guideline to work to. If as Pat suggests you have undead outlines waiting seductively in their coffins, do you think that 'de-authorizing' them might wake them again? It's worked a couple of times for me. [Truth in advertising: I have no publications yet to my name, and for this technique it's still too early to call in any results except, 'Lazarus got up and walked, after long decay'. To the finishing post? Not yet; but at least through productive months I'd never expected.] Pat - It must be a very fine thing, to have a natural length which is not a novella or a doorstop. Or, in the worst cases, a non-stop doorstop…

Beth - If I tell the story the wrong way, I’m done too. At least, I’m done till I forget that I told it that way, or stop caring. Sometimes that’s a mighty long time.

One trick which sometimes works, but took me another mighty long time to come to, is this: instead of outlining the True Story, give a summary - a historical article, a poem or song, whatever - from a narrator who is in some important respect infuriatingly wrong about everything.

There remains then the rage to correct it, and tell what actually happened, with a handy non-authoritative guideline to work to. If as Pat suggests you have undead outlines waiting seductively in their coffins, do you think that ‘de-authorizing’ them might wake them again? It’s worked a couple of times for me. [Truth in advertising: I have no publications yet to my name, and for this technique it's still too early to call in any results except, 'Lazarus got up and walked, after long decay'. To the finishing post? Not yet; but at least through productive months I'd never expected.]

]]> Comment on Day Jobs by Gray Woodland http://pcwrede.com/blog/day-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-1884 Gray Woodland Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:07:29 +0000 http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=488#comment-1884 Since you don't have much more production time than with the day job, and make presumably far less money, I presume your ability to sell and publicize your work have surged greatly to make it worthwhile? You've left the gains from the extra workload somewhat implicit. For me, another big one would be the simple fact of being my own boss - I took a serious hit in income for that purpose during the dotcom craziness, and even failing as I did to make my fortune, it turned out to be worth every glorious year I could wring out of it. Go that road again, it's apt to be with storytelling, and it'll be hard to go back on it. There's long ways still, before I'm set for that. Since you don’t have much more production time than with the day job, and make presumably far less money, I presume your ability to sell and publicize your work have surged greatly to make it worthwhile? You’ve left the gains from the extra workload somewhat implicit.

For me, another big one would be the simple fact of being my own boss - I took a serious hit in income for that purpose during the dotcom craziness, and even failing as I did to make my fortune, it turned out to be worth every glorious year I could wring out of it.

Go that road again, it’s apt to be with storytelling, and it’ll be hard to go back on it. There’s long ways still, before I’m set for that.

]]> Comment on A Line Around the Outer Edge by Gray Woodland http://pcwrede.com/blog/a-line-around-the-outer-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-1883 Gray Woodland Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:44:12 +0000 http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=478#comment-1883 The distinction between the two kinds is really worth making. My version of a usable working outline is an ever-changing contents list and a long series of mutually incompatible sketches and speculations. I did once do a regular portion-and-outline for a tie-in line that accepted unsolicited submissions in that form. Got a rather good individual rejection, too - though not the only good-enough kind, that says, "Change and resubmit". Boy, that taught me a few things: 1) Boiling down to outline length hurts. 2) Chapter-by-chapter belongs to my writing process, and is not necessarily optimal for the publisher's outline. Even if one of the chapter titles is among the best <i>evah</i>. Here is your "#2 with maybe a bit of #1" writ large. 3) Even in a series that's all about time travel, don't assume the poor overworked slush-reader will correctly follow the plot's screwing about with time unless one frames the trick in ruby-studded gold and bolts it to the wall. This may require one to remember point (2) above. 4) After boiling it down to a skeleton in (1), dancing with it just ain't the same. Specifically, trying to write from the result is the same kind of fun as trying to read an Agatha Christie novel - whilst consulting a set of exam notes before embarking on every chapter. Darn, point (2) again! Things I'm not so sure I've learned: a) You can get away with half-a-dozen named characters in the outline? Good gravy. I hate to think how many I had. One reason was space - 'the King of Essex' eats words a lot faster than 'Gary'. b) I'm okay with my WIP - write first draft my way, check; write publisher outline afterwards, check; redraft both and submit, got it. But I am a denizen of the slushpile. Being a professional who presumably can't afford to write a whole novel whose outline nobody offers to commission - how much leeway do you have with that outline, once it's sold? And how do you frame the outline to give you maximum breathing-room? The distinction between the two kinds is really worth making. My version of a usable working outline is an ever-changing contents list and a long series of mutually incompatible sketches and speculations. I did once do a regular portion-and-outline for a tie-in line that accepted unsolicited submissions in that form. Got a rather good individual rejection, too - though not the only good-enough kind, that says, “Change and resubmit”. Boy, that taught me a few things:

1) Boiling down to outline length hurts.

2) Chapter-by-chapter belongs to my writing process, and is not necessarily optimal for the publisher’s outline. Even if one of the chapter titles is among the best evah. Here is your “#2 with maybe a bit of #1″ writ large.

3) Even in a series that’s all about time travel, don’t assume the poor overworked slush-reader will correctly follow the plot’s screwing about with time unless one frames the trick in ruby-studded gold and bolts it to the wall. This may require one to remember point (2) above.

4) After boiling it down to a skeleton in (1), dancing with it just ain’t the same. Specifically, trying to write from the result is the same kind of fun as trying to read an Agatha Christie novel - whilst consulting a set of exam notes before embarking on every chapter. Darn, point (2) again!

Things I’m not so sure I’ve learned:

a) You can get away with half-a-dozen named characters in the outline? Good gravy. I hate to think how many I had. One reason was space - ‘the King of Essex’ eats words a lot faster than ‘Gary’.

b) I’m okay with my WIP - write first draft my way, check; write publisher outline afterwards, check; redraft both and submit, got it. But I am a denizen of the slushpile. Being a professional who presumably can’t afford to write a whole novel whose outline nobody offers to commission - how much leeway do you have with that outline, once it’s sold? And how do you frame the outline to give you maximum breathing-room?

]]> Comment on Day Jobs by Michelle Bottorff http://pcwrede.com/blog/day-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-1882 Michelle Bottorff Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:32:26 +0000 http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=488#comment-1882 "A six-foot stack of manuscripts won’t earn me any money if they’re sitting in the bottom drawer of my desk..." You must have an awfully big desk. >:) ... not that I don't have a six foot stack of my own, but it fills up three big boxes, not one drawer. (And yes, I am still trying to get something done with it all. I spent most of today writing a query letter, in fact. Bleh. I will be very glad to get back to actual story writing tomorrow!) “A six-foot stack of manuscripts won’t earn me any money if they’re sitting in the bottom drawer of my desk…”

You must have an awfully big desk. >:)

… not that I don’t have a six foot stack of my own, but it fills up three big boxes, not one drawer.

(And yes, I am still trying to get something done with it all. I spent most of today writing a query letter, in fact. Bleh. I will be very glad to get back to actual story writing tomorrow!)

]]> Comment on Day Jobs by pcwrede http://pcwrede.com/blog/day-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-1880 pcwrede Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:46:52 +0000 http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=488#comment-1880 Lisa - Exactly. Running a business, even a small one, takes time. You can either blow off whatever aspects of it you dislike (which generally results in angry customers, lost sales, and in extreme cases, failure of even a small for-fun hobby), or you can find someone else who loves to do the bits you hate and with whom you can work (usually VERY hard to do), or you can hire someone to do those bits (expensive, and often not an option for a small or start-up operation), or you can bite the bullet and do those things yourself to the best of your ability (back to time and energy). Running your craft shop will probably give you a lot of valuable experience that you can apply to making money from your writing and drawing, but it is likely that at some point, you will have to decide where your priorities are. There is a limit to how many balls any one person can juggle at one time. accio_aqualung - Excuses are a different problem. All the writers I know are really good at coming up with excuses for not writing. The stuff I'm talking about here are the legitimate and <em>necessary</em> things I need to do to operate my writing business on a day-to-day basis. Production is undoubtedly the most important piece, but publicity, sales, marketing, finance, and so on also must get done. A six-foot stack of manuscripts won't earn me any money if they're sitting in the bottom drawer of my desk, or on my hard drive. Lisa - Exactly. Running a business, even a small one, takes time. You can either blow off whatever aspects of it you dislike (which generally results in angry customers, lost sales, and in extreme cases, failure of even a small for-fun hobby), or you can find someone else who loves to do the bits you hate and with whom you can work (usually VERY hard to do), or you can hire someone to do those bits (expensive, and often not an option for a small or start-up operation), or you can bite the bullet and do those things yourself to the best of your ability (back to time and energy).

Running your craft shop will probably give you a lot of valuable experience that you can apply to making money from your writing and drawing, but it is likely that at some point, you will have to decide where your priorities are. There is a limit to how many balls any one person can juggle at one time.

accio_aqualung - Excuses are a different problem. All the writers I know are really good at coming up with excuses for not writing. The stuff I’m talking about here are the legitimate and necessary things I need to do to operate my writing business on a day-to-day basis. Production is undoubtedly the most important piece, but publicity, sales, marketing, finance, and so on also must get done. A six-foot stack of manuscripts won’t earn me any money if they’re sitting in the bottom drawer of my desk, or on my hard drive.

]]> Comment on So the next thing that happens is… by pcwrede http://pcwrede.com/blog/so-the-next-thing-that-happens-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1879 pcwrede Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:27:48 +0000 http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=482#comment-1879 Beth - If writing without an outline is working for you, and you already know that writing <em>with</em> an outline kills the story, why are you so determined to "manage something with an outline"? Is it just "grass is greener the way other people do it" syndrome, or do you have stories that you did outlines for that you still kind of want to tell even though they're dead, or what? If you'd never tried outlining, I'd probably say give it a whirl to see if it works, but if you've tried it and already know that it doesn't work for you, why keep pushing? Writing is hard enough to learn how to do without making it even harder by doing it in some way that doesn't fit your process. Beth - If writing without an outline is working for you, and you already know that writing with an outline kills the story, why are you so determined to “manage something with an outline”? Is it just “grass is greener the way other people do it” syndrome, or do you have stories that you did outlines for that you still kind of want to tell even though they’re dead, or what? If you’d never tried outlining, I’d probably say give it a whirl to see if it works, but if you’ve tried it and already know that it doesn’t work for you, why keep pushing? Writing is hard enough to learn how to do without making it even harder by doing it in some way that doesn’t fit your process.

]]> Comment on Day Jobs by accio_aqualung http://pcwrede.com/blog/day-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-1877 accio_aqualung Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:58:58 +0000 http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=488#comment-1877 I make excuses and put them smack dab in the middle of my way. I am my own biggest obstacle and if you ask, i'll make it sound legit. I make excuses and put them smack dab in the middle of my way. I am my own biggest obstacle and if you ask, i’ll make it sound legit.

]]> Comment on So the next thing that happens is… by Beth http://pcwrede.com/blog/so-the-next-thing-that-happens-is/comment-page-1/#comment-1876 Beth Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:07:55 +0000 http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=482#comment-1876 Thank you, thank you, thank you for mentioning the "for some, outlining is actively harmful." I have hopes of actually outlining and writing something someday, but thus far... If I outline, I've told the story. If I've told the story, I'm <I>done</I>. Instead of a force of words for "what happens next," pushing out of me like water from a fire hydrant, I have to drill a well, drop a bucket down, and haul it up, letter by letter, without even a pulley to help. I'm hoping that if I can get a lot of assistance and support (I write for the enthusiasm of my beta-readers, as well; it's like cookies, but with no calories!), I can manage something with an outline. I'm waiting for my spouse to retire, first. Thank you, thank you, thank you for mentioning the “for some, outlining is actively harmful.” I have hopes of actually outlining and writing something someday, but thus far… If I outline, I’ve told the story. If I’ve told the story, I’m done. Instead of a force of words for “what happens next,” pushing out of me like water from a fire hydrant, I have to drill a well, drop a bucket down, and haul it up, letter by letter, without even a pulley to help.

I’m hoping that if I can get a lot of assistance and support (I write for the enthusiasm of my beta-readers, as well; it’s like cookies, but with no calories!), I can manage something with an outline. I’m waiting for my spouse to retire, first.

]]> Comment on Day Jobs by lisa http://pcwrede.com/blog/day-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-1874 lisa Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:24:51 +0000 http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=488#comment-1874 This is just what I've found after starting a craft shop online "for fun" while I'm supposed to be writing and drawing full-time. How did a little side-hobby thing end up taking up so much of my time? For exactly the sorts of reasons you mentioned (and which I have ranted about on my blog: http://satsumaart.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/update-on-yoga-mat-tote-and-thoughts-on-my-shop/). There are product photos to be taken, research to do and forums/blogs/advice to read, people to contact, and so forth. Even if my shop is teeny tiny and hardly makes me any money yet, I still want to do it right, and that means behaving as if it's a bigger business, one that I depend on for income. I'm still exploring ways to make it take up less of my writing and drawing time, but I've realized that the shop will always take up a good bit of time for as long as I maintain it. This is just what I’ve found after starting a craft shop online “for fun” while I’m supposed to be writing and drawing full-time. How did a little side-hobby thing end up taking up so much of my time? For exactly the sorts of reasons you mentioned (and which I have ranted about on my blog: http://satsumaart.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/update-on-yoga-mat-tote-and-thoughts-on-my-shop/). There are product photos to be taken, research to do and forums/blogs/advice to read, people to contact, and so forth. Even if my shop is teeny tiny and hardly makes me any money yet, I still want to do it right, and that means behaving as if it’s a bigger business, one that I depend on for income. I’m still exploring ways to make it take up less of my writing and drawing time, but I’ve realized that the shop will always take up a good bit of time for as long as I maintain it.

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