Comments on: So the next thing that happens is…

By: Mary

Mary — Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:09:10 +0000

One other thing that does not pertain very much, but I am still curious about: *What* is a doohickie?!

By: Mary

Mary — Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:05:43 +0000

I just have a little vague idea in my head of what will *probably* come next -it doesn’t mean it will, for me!- and then when I get to that part in my writing, I just keep going for a page or so until another vague idea appears. Sometimes my idea comes out in something that a character says, and I didn’t even plan on it. It seems like my story has a mind of its own! That is my kind-of outline, but it works! (For me!)

By: Gray Woodland

Gray Woodland — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:33:40 +0000

Pat – It must be a very fine thing, to have a natural length which is not a novella or a doorstop. Or, in the worst cases, a non-stop doorstop…

Beth – If I tell the story the wrong way, I’m done too. At least, I’m done till I forget that I told it that way, or stop caring. Sometimes that’s a mighty long time.

One trick which sometimes works, but took me another mighty long time to come to, is this: instead of outlining the True Story, give a summary – a historical article, a poem or song, whatever – from a narrator who is in some important respect infuriatingly wrong about everything.

There remains then the rage to correct it, and tell what actually happened, with a handy non-authoritative guideline to work to. If as Pat suggests you have undead outlines waiting seductively in their coffins, do you think that ‘de-authorizing’ them might wake them again? It’s worked a couple of times for me. [Truth in advertising: I have no publications yet to my name, and for this technique it's still too early to call in any results except, 'Lazarus got up and walked, after long decay'. To the finishing post? Not yet; but at least through productive months I'd never expected.]

By: pcwrede

pcwrede — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 14:27:48 +0000

Beth – If writing without an outline is working for you, and you already know that writing with an outline kills the story, why are you so determined to “manage something with an outline”? Is it just “grass is greener the way other people do it” syndrome, or do you have stories that you did outlines for that you still kind of want to tell even though they’re dead, or what? If you’d never tried outlining, I’d probably say give it a whirl to see if it works, but if you’ve tried it and already know that it doesn’t work for you, why keep pushing? Writing is hard enough to learn how to do without making it even harder by doing it in some way that doesn’t fit your process.

By: Beth

Beth — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 00:07:55 +0000

Thank you, thank you, thank you for mentioning the “for some, outlining is actively harmful.” I have hopes of actually outlining and writing something someday, but thus far… If I outline, I’ve told the story. If I’ve told the story, I’m done. Instead of a force of words for “what happens next,” pushing out of me like water from a fire hydrant, I have to drill a well, drop a bucket down, and haul it up, letter by letter, without even a pulley to help.

I’m hoping that if I can get a lot of assistance and support (I write for the enthusiasm of my beta-readers, as well; it’s like cookies, but with no calories!), I can manage something with an outline. I’m waiting for my spouse to retire, first.

By: pcwrede

pcwrede — Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:07:24 +0000

Gray – To date, I don’t think I’ve ever used anything other thn instinct for length control. Well, instinct and obsessively checking the word count to see how much I had left, when I was doing the middle-school books (which are really the only things I’ve done that actually had a severe length limit). Everything else has been like the right length for legs – long enough to reach the ground.

By: Gray Woodland

Gray Woodland — Fri, 12 Mar 2010 21:15:35 +0000

Actually, it’s even worse than that – a point you glide lightly over with ‘as the situation demands’. My experience is that different books require totally different outlining methods or abstention therefrom. I suppose that’s because they present different problems, and suspect that the use of whichever aren’t currently necessary tends to cause choke and overthinking. For me, at any rate.

One technique you don’t mention, probably more consistently useful to me than any other single method: the write-only outline, whose use-by date for consultation is at best that of yesterday’s mackerel, but whose repeated serious attempt works wonders for the nebulous patches ahead. My main difficulty with those was in realizing that their write-only tendency was not necessarily a bug.

Contents lists with really evocative and memorable chapter titles are a good way of keeping the shape of the story in mind too, as long as I don’t get too attached to any of them (BTDT). Chapter-phrases work at a very handy level of chunking.

One outstanding question: do you use outlining methods for length control? The Browne circle diagram is the only tool I’ve ever found, besides my intermittently reliable seat-of-the-pants instinct, that gives me any natural handle on that at all.