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	<title>Comments on: The Other Big Three</title>
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	<link>http://pcwrede.com/blog/the-other-big-three/</link>
	<description>Patricia C. Wrede talks about writing</description>
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		<title>By: pcwrede</title>
		<link>http://pcwrede.com/blog/the-other-big-three/comment-page-1/#comment-1741</link>
		<dc:creator>pcwrede</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 03:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=400#comment-1741</guid>
		<description>Hi, Bruce! Very true; on the other hand, I get endless amusement out of the spelling checker&#039;s suggestions for the &quot;right&quot; way to spell my last name (it&#039;s why I&#039;ve never added it to the word list, which is sort of cheating, but I&#039;ll take my amusement where I can get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Bruce! Very true; on the other hand, I get endless amusement out of the spelling checker&#8217;s suggestions for the &#8220;right&#8221; way to spell my last name (it&#8217;s why I&#8217;ve never added it to the word list, which is sort of cheating, but I&#8217;ll take my amusement where I can get it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Bethke</title>
		<link>http://pcwrede.com/blog/the-other-big-three/comment-page-1/#comment-1740</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Bethke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 20:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=400#comment-1740</guid>
		<description>One aggravation I seem to run into with increasing frequency is, &quot;Who cares about spelling? The spell-checker will catch it.&quot;

As a result, this morning I had the pleasure of reading a story in which the poor protagonist was stuck somewhere for five minuets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One aggravation I seem to run into with increasing frequency is, &#8220;Who cares about spelling? The spell-checker will catch it.&#8221;</p>
<p>As a result, this morning I had the pleasure of reading a story in which the poor protagonist was stuck somewhere for five minuets.</p>
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		<title>By: pcwrede</title>
		<link>http://pcwrede.com/blog/the-other-big-three/comment-page-1/#comment-1737</link>
		<dc:creator>pcwrede</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=400#comment-1737</guid>
		<description>Michelle - &lt;cat mode&gt; I knew that &lt;/cat mode&gt;

Seriously - it was well worth putting that reminder out there. To me, getting the grammar and spelling and so on right (including homonyms!) is much like touch-typing; the nuns back in grade school drilled us mercilessly enough that not making usage errors got to be as much a habit as using my left index finger to hit the &quot;g&quot; and &quot;f&quot; keys. For most of the grammar and syntax stuff, I think working this way is an advantage for me - getting it right makes it easier to make the sentences do what I want. For homonyms, that part isn&#039;t so important (using &quot;their&quot; instead of &quot;there&quot; doesn&#039;t change the rhythm of the sentence, or, usually, affect what you wanted to say or thought you were saying)...but getting the homonyms right on the first try means I DON&#039;T have to go through the tedious process of search-and-check that you described, which is a good enough reason for me to want to do it! So sometimes I forget that there are folks out there who CAN&#039;T get the habit in quite the same way, like my dyslexic niece. So it&#039;s good you said it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michelle &#8211; <cat mode> I knew that </cat></p>
<p>Seriously &#8211; it was well worth putting that reminder out there. To me, getting the grammar and spelling and so on right (including homonyms!) is much like touch-typing; the nuns back in grade school drilled us mercilessly enough that not making usage errors got to be as much a habit as using my left index finger to hit the &#8220;g&#8221; and &#8220;f&#8221; keys. For most of the grammar and syntax stuff, I think working this way is an advantage for me &#8211; getting it right makes it easier to make the sentences do what I want. For homonyms, that part isn&#8217;t so important (using &#8220;their&#8221; instead of &#8220;there&#8221; doesn&#8217;t change the rhythm of the sentence, or, usually, affect what you wanted to say or thought you were saying)&#8230;but getting the homonyms right on the first try means I DON&#8217;T have to go through the tedious process of search-and-check that you described, which is a good enough reason for me to want to do it! So sometimes I forget that there are folks out there who CAN&#8217;T get the habit in quite the same way, like my dyslexic niece. So it&#8217;s good you said it.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle Bottorff</title>
		<link>http://pcwrede.com/blog/the-other-big-three/comment-page-1/#comment-1733</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle Bottorff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 21:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=400#comment-1733</guid>
		<description>Yes, well, I agreed with your rant, Pat, and I always have agreed with your rant.

I was riffing off of someone else&#039;s comment.  And then once I got into that particular rut, I kept on supporting that point, and you kept on supporting your point.

Wonderful example of two people talking right past each other.  :)

Ah well, my last post provides a description of a good technique for people to use when putting your point into action, so maybe I managed to contribute something worthwhile to the conversation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, well, I agreed with your rant, Pat, and I always have agreed with your rant.</p>
<p>I was riffing off of someone else&#8217;s comment.  And then once I got into that particular rut, I kept on supporting that point, and you kept on supporting your point.</p>
<p>Wonderful example of two people talking right past each other.  <img src='http://pcwrede.com/blog/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Ah well, my last post provides a description of a good technique for people to use when putting your point into action, so maybe I managed to contribute something worthwhile to the conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: pcwrede</title>
		<link>http://pcwrede.com/blog/the-other-big-three/comment-page-1/#comment-1732</link>
		<dc:creator>pcwrede</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=400#comment-1732</guid>
		<description>Michelle - Well, congratulations on getting the &quot;theres&quot; down, and good luck with the commas. But see, that&#039;s my point. You know it&#039;s important, so you work at fixing it. About half of the would-be writers I meet don&#039;t think it&#039;s important, or think that it&#039;s not &lt;em&gt;their&lt;/em&gt; job to make sure their manuscripts aren&#039;t riddled with typos, mis-punctuated, and so on. They are the ones I&#039;m ranting at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michelle &#8211; Well, congratulations on getting the &#8220;theres&#8221; down, and good luck with the commas. But see, that&#8217;s my point. You know it&#8217;s important, so you work at fixing it. About half of the would-be writers I meet don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s important, or think that it&#8217;s not <em>their</em> job to make sure their manuscripts aren&#8217;t riddled with typos, mis-punctuated, and so on. They are the ones I&#8217;m ranting at.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle Bottorff</title>
		<link>http://pcwrede.com/blog/the-other-big-three/comment-page-1/#comment-1731</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle Bottorff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=400#comment-1731</guid>
		<description>Yes, I check over my manuscripts for those errors. 

Guess what, in my last manuscript, by the time I had gotten down my copy edit check-list to the &quot;there search&quot; ie typing &quot;there&quot;, &quot;their&quot; and &quot;they&#039;re&quot; into my search box and checking each and every one in the manuscript to see if its right, I had *none* of that kind of error.  It was a novella manuscript, but still I felt pretty proud of myself.  

But learning to *not* make the error required me understanding what the error really was.  Learning rules I already knew didn&#039;t help.  Training myself gradually over a period of years, to catch myself typing a there and check if it was the right one, was what was needed.  (I wish it had been learning rules, it would have been much easier.)

Now, if only I could get on top of those blasted commas!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I check over my manuscripts for those errors. </p>
<p>Guess what, in my last manuscript, by the time I had gotten down my copy edit check-list to the &#8220;there search&#8221; ie typing &#8220;there&#8221;, &#8220;their&#8221; and &#8220;they&#8217;re&#8221; into my search box and checking each and every one in the manuscript to see if its right, I had *none* of that kind of error.  It was a novella manuscript, but still I felt pretty proud of myself.  </p>
<p>But learning to *not* make the error required me understanding what the error really was.  Learning rules I already knew didn&#8217;t help.  Training myself gradually over a period of years, to catch myself typing a there and check if it was the right one, was what was needed.  (I wish it had been learning rules, it would have been much easier.)</p>
<p>Now, if only I could get on top of those blasted commas!</p>
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		<title>By: pcwrede</title>
		<link>http://pcwrede.com/blog/the-other-big-three/comment-page-1/#comment-1720</link>
		<dc:creator>pcwrede</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=400#comment-1720</guid>
		<description>Chicoy - First-person narrators are an exception to a lot of rules. Hmm, maybe it&#039;s time to post some more on viewpoint...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chicoy &#8211; First-person narrators are an exception to a lot of rules. Hmm, maybe it&#8217;s time to post some more on viewpoint&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chicoy</title>
		<link>http://pcwrede.com/blog/the-other-big-three/comment-page-1/#comment-1719</link>
		<dc:creator>Chicoy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=400#comment-1719</guid>
		<description>While I agree that grammar and spelling are important I have to ask, what about when one has a first-person narrator who uses dialect?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree that grammar and spelling are important I have to ask, what about when one has a first-person narrator who uses dialect?</p>
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		<title>By: pcwrede</title>
		<link>http://pcwrede.com/blog/the-other-big-three/comment-page-1/#comment-1718</link>
		<dc:creator>pcwrede</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=400#comment-1718</guid>
		<description>Michelle - Yes, but you know you mix up homonyms, so you don&#039;t let your stories out into the wild without checking first, right? At least, not past your first-readers. That&#039;s different from not caring at all. One of my writer friends is mildly dyslexic and can&#039;t spell for anything...but he doesn&#039;t even run things past his first readers without running the spelling checker. 

Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho - The difference between there, they&#039;re, and their isn&#039;t purely a matter of spelling; there are places where they&#039;re actually pronounced slightly differently (like merry, marry, and Mary, or ant and aunt). So it&#039;s possible that the difference is a holdover from a time when they were pronounced differently by pretty much everyone.

accio_aqualung - Love the posters! Yes, colloquial and informal English is more relaxed about some things. Some of it is fine - colloquial English is, after all, supposed to be informal! - but there are still usages like &quot;ain&#039;t&quot; that are seriously problematic.

David - That&#039;s the trouble with writing - you can&#039;t ever be an expert in everything, so even if you do research, you make mistakes with stuff like railroads that actual experts find off-putting. The thing is that words (and spelling and grammar and punctuation) are supposed to be the thing WRITERS are expert in, which means getting them wrong ought to be really, really embarassing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michelle &#8211; Yes, but you know you mix up homonyms, so you don&#8217;t let your stories out into the wild without checking first, right? At least, not past your first-readers. That&#8217;s different from not caring at all. One of my writer friends is mildly dyslexic and can&#8217;t spell for anything&#8230;but he doesn&#8217;t even run things past his first readers without running the spelling checker. </p>
<p>Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho &#8211; The difference between there, they&#8217;re, and their isn&#8217;t purely a matter of spelling; there are places where they&#8217;re actually pronounced slightly differently (like merry, marry, and Mary, or ant and aunt). So it&#8217;s possible that the difference is a holdover from a time when they were pronounced differently by pretty much everyone.</p>
<p>accio_aqualung &#8211; Love the posters! Yes, colloquial and informal English is more relaxed about some things. Some of it is fine &#8211; colloquial English is, after all, supposed to be informal! &#8211; but there are still usages like &#8220;ain&#8217;t&#8221; that are seriously problematic.</p>
<p>David &#8211; That&#8217;s the trouble with writing &#8211; you can&#8217;t ever be an expert in everything, so even if you do research, you make mistakes with stuff like railroads that actual experts find off-putting. The thing is that words (and spelling and grammar and punctuation) are supposed to be the thing WRITERS are expert in, which means getting them wrong ought to be really, really embarassing.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://pcwrede.com/blog/the-other-big-three/comment-page-1/#comment-1717</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 06:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pcwrede.com/blog/?p=400#comment-1717</guid>
		<description>As a reader, I am on the side of impeccable grammar and spelling. If I&#039;m reading along, lost in the story, and suddenly find a clunky bit of grammar or misused word, I just lose the story while I go back and figure out what it should have been. 
We had a discussion on one of the railway sites about movies that make errors in the railway scenes -- the most obvious being trains that change several times during a trip -- down to just using equipment from the wrong era or area. We notice it but it doesn&#039;t disturb the layman.
When I went though high school, a number of grammatical mistakes were counted as major errors (disagreement of number, wrong case, malapropisms/illiteracies) and 3 of them would fail an essay.
I&#039;ve since read so much badly done writing that I&#039;ve lost a lot of my fine edge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a reader, I am on the side of impeccable grammar and spelling. If I&#8217;m reading along, lost in the story, and suddenly find a clunky bit of grammar or misused word, I just lose the story while I go back and figure out what it should have been.<br />
We had a discussion on one of the railway sites about movies that make errors in the railway scenes &#8212; the most obvious being trains that change several times during a trip &#8212; down to just using equipment from the wrong era or area. We notice it but it doesn&#8217;t disturb the layman.<br />
When I went though high school, a number of grammatical mistakes were counted as major errors (disagreement of number, wrong case, malapropisms/illiteracies) and 3 of them would fail an essay.<br />
I&#8217;ve since read so much badly done writing that I&#8217;ve lost a lot of my fine edge.</p>
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